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Citizens Liberty Organization / 🌎 Global Channels / 📜member-chat [part 25]

Grand pow-wow. Divisive content subject to deletion.

countrygirl
(id: 402526104977539093)

04 Jun 2020 16:58

I'd have to agree@Confused

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Heltor913
(id: 649130476900057089)

04 Jun 2020 16:58

That's why I tend to look at the ones who are extremely protective. Those are the ones that will do whatever has to be done at any cost, even if it means them dying in the process. Those are the men I want on my 6.

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Schweet-T
(id: 325659559412891648)

04 Jun 2020 16:59

A lot of it also boils down to the reason for the fighting. Those that believe their cause is just are more likely to push harder versus people that don’t.

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Crye Salesman
(id: 368359599889186818)

04 Jun 2020 16:59

Well if you’re talking about ‘On Killing’ that entire book is prettttyyyyy much BS

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Sparky McLovin
(id: 402536444239020032)

04 Jun 2020 16:59

Sorry guys can't stay on....would love to as this is actually a very interesting conversation. But also...the chiropractor waits for no man....lol

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Confused
(id: 205492937423978496)

04 Jun 2020 16:59

I'm talking about the psychological studies done within the us army, mostly around the two world wars

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Heltor913
(id: 649130476900057089)

04 Jun 2020 17:00

One thing I will say, I believe some people truly have that primordial switch for war. That thing in their head that just enables them.

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Sparrow
(id: 263533549595000836)

04 Jun 2020 17:00

War and violence will always be a constant within humanity. Our current issue is that we're fighting with our own countrymen, rather than a non-domestic enemy.

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Crye Salesman
(id: 368359599889186818)

04 Jun 2020 17:00

I wouldn’t really call those reliable sources either tbh, and military field violence is far different then civilian violence at talking distance.

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Heltor913
(id: 649130476900057089)

04 Jun 2020 17:01

Nope.

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Confused
(id: 205492937423978496)

04 Jun 2020 17:01

They implemented classical conditioning, which brought the ratio of people shooting to kill from below 50% to over 95%

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Heltor913
(id: 649130476900057089)

04 Jun 2020 17:01

That would probably be more detrimental.

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Crye Salesman
(id: 368359599889186818)

04 Jun 2020 17:01

No, you do **NOT** want psychopaths in your unit. That’s the one thing on killing gets right lol

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Heltor913
(id: 649130476900057089)

04 Jun 2020 17:01

In my mind. Idk. What yall think sparrow and Crye?

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Sparrow
(id: 263533549595000836)

04 Jun 2020 17:01

Most soldiers have some form of sociopathic tendencies either naturally or developed from training. But Psychopaths are a big no no and are immediately turned away.

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Crye Salesman
(id: 368359599889186818)

04 Jun 2020 17:01

Yeah, they’re going to cause more harm than good.

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Confused
(id: 205492937423978496)

04 Jun 2020 17:01

Depends on where they fall on the antisocial spectrum

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Heltor913
(id: 649130476900057089)

04 Jun 2020 17:02

Its okay to be a sociopath.

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Heltor913
(id: 649130476900057089)

04 Jun 2020 17:02

Phsycopath is no no.

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Crye Salesman
(id: 368359599889186818)

04 Jun 2020 17:02

There’s also levels to all of these mental states

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Crye Salesman
(id: 368359599889186818)

04 Jun 2020 17:02

That’s not inherently a bad thing, especially if you’re aware of it

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Sparrow
(id: 263533549595000836)

04 Jun 2020 17:02

Sociopath means you are logical and calculated, and you know the difference between right and wrong. Psycopath, means you are driven by emotion and often blur the line of what's morally considered good and bad.

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Sparrow
(id: 263533549595000836)

04 Jun 2020 17:03

The military does not want Psycopaths.

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Crye Salesman
(id: 368359599889186818)

04 Jun 2020 17:03

Like I said tho, military studies of violence aren’t going to translate well to social levels of violence

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Sparrow
(id: 263533549595000836)

04 Jun 2020 17:03

Also true, it's a different situation.

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Heltor913
(id: 649130476900057089)

04 Jun 2020 17:03

No but it's a good starting point.

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Confused
(id: 205492937423978496)

04 Jun 2020 17:03

Psychopathy and sociopathy are relatively arbitrary words with differing definitions. I tend to respect the term psychopath more, as Robert Hare CM essentially pioneered that research

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Crye Salesman
(id: 368359599889186818)

04 Jun 2020 17:03

I think that in general, studies of criminal violence would be more applicable

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Heltor913
(id: 649130476900057089)

04 Jun 2020 17:04

Fuck. I want a felons on my side lmao.

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Confused
(id: 205492937423978496)

04 Jun 2020 17:04

I had a heavy focus of study on psychopathy in university before switching to IT

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Heltor913
(id: 649130476900057089)

04 Jun 2020 17:04

People who sat in state for 20 years because they wouldnt nark have loyalty.

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Heltor913
(id: 649130476900057089)

04 Jun 2020 17:04

I want that on my side.

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Thatotherguy
(id: 648180483141795842)

04 Jun 2020 17:05

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Crye Salesman
(id: 368359599889186818)

04 Jun 2020 17:05

I’m much more interested in people with understanding and processing speed

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Confused
(id: 205492937423978496)

04 Jun 2020 17:06

Most of the research on psychopaths come from convicted criminals so it's somewhat slanted. Roughly 1% of people fall significantly on the psychopathy spectrum. Almost all of them are regular people, many of whom are extremely successful. They're your ceo's and war heroes

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Confused
(id: 205492937423978496)

04 Jun 2020 17:06

Roughly 50% of those who have been given the Victoria cross

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Crye Salesman
(id: 368359599889186818)

04 Jun 2020 17:06

If you haven’t read Varg Freeborns book don’t @ me about violence and conditioning

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Confused
(id: 205492937423978496)

04 Jun 2020 17:06

I have

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Sparrow
(id: 263533549595000836)

04 Jun 2020 17:07

Are you certain that those aren't sociopaths?

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Crye Salesman
(id: 368359599889186818)

04 Jun 2020 17:07

That wasn’t directed at you in particular @Confused, but good!

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Sparrow
(id: 263533549595000836)

04 Jun 2020 17:08

From everything I've read, Psycopaths tend to blur right and wrong and often can be found to have moments of extreme violence with no before-thought.

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Crye Salesman
(id: 368359599889186818)

04 Jun 2020 17:08

I would also like to point out that uh, most of that shit is kinda made up

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Sparrow
(id: 263533549595000836)

04 Jun 2020 17:08

People often lump the two, and maybe it's just certain areas of the same spectrum, but from my understanding, they can be separated by emotion vs logic.

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Sparrow
(id: 263533549595000836)

04 Jun 2020 17:10

Well the issue with Psychology, is that humans all have free will and think differently, there is no one set manner of which people think and react, which is what makes my job in particular so difficult, because you have to build different baselines with every individual.

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Sparrow
(id: 263533549595000836)

04 Jun 2020 17:10

What applies to one, may not apply to the other.

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Confused
(id: 205492937423978496)

04 Jun 2020 17:10

Psychopathy and sociopathy are essentially made up and almost everything you read about differences between the two are wrong

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Confused
(id: 205492937423978496)

04 Jun 2020 17:11

Yeah you're right about that for the most part

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Sparrow
(id: 263533549595000836)

04 Jun 2020 17:12

Oh I was wrong, Confused is right, I had them mixed.

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Confused
(id: 205492937423978496)

04 Jun 2020 17:12

I tend to ignore the term sociopath because most of the literature I've read revolves around Dr Robert Hare, who called it psychopathy

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Sparrow
(id: 263533549595000836)

04 Jun 2020 17:12

Outward Behavior of a Sociopath Sociopaths tend to be extremely disorganized. They are unable to maintain normal relationships with family, friends, or co-workers. They are often unable to keep steady employment or housing. They often live literally at the fringes of society. In a study of the homeless people who live in the subway tunnels of New York City, a disproportionately large number of them were classed as sociopaths. Their outbreaks of violence are erratic and unplanned. Sociopaths are easier to identify and apprehend as they generally leave behind a large trail of clues. Outward Behavior of a Psychopath Psychopaths can be almost obsessively organized. They can maintain normal social relationships. They may take care of aging parents or be married with children. Psychopaths will often be very successful in their careers. Their need for organization is coupled with an ability to make others like and trust them. Because they intellectually understand human emotions but are unable to experience them themselves, they are masters at emotional manipulation. They often live in a normal house or apartment, completely indistinguishable from healthy people. Psychopaths will take years to plan out acts of violence and revenge. They are very difficult to catch because they will carefully plan each step of the act to ensure they will commit their crime undetected.

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Sparrow
(id: 263533549595000836)

04 Jun 2020 17:13

1. Sociopaths and psychopaths are both classed as anti-social personality disorders. 2. Both types of person enjoy cruelty, feel lack normal human emotions of guilt, and are unable to form emotional bonds with others. 3. Sociopaths generally behave in a disorganized, erratic manner. 4. Psychopaths generally behave outwardly normal but will engage in elaborate plots to manipulate or harm those around them.

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Confused
(id: 205492937423978496)

04 Jun 2020 17:13

So a few things. Psychopathy, by his definition, is on a spectrum. Everyone has certain traits. Only those with a significant portion of the listed traits in his test, administered by a psychologist, are considered psychopaths. Most psychopaths live successful, normal lives, though many had issues with juvenile delinquency.

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Sparrow
(id: 263533549595000836)

04 Jun 2020 17:14

Yes, of course.

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Sparrow
(id: 263533549595000836)

04 Jun 2020 17:14

One or two things, doesn't make you a psychopath.

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Heltor913
(id: 649130476900057089)

04 Jun 2020 17:18

Can someone be made into a phsycopath?

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Heltor913
(id: 649130476900057089)

04 Jun 2020 17:18

Like, they quit being able to make emotional bonds with people after traumatic experiences or something?

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Sparrow
(id: 263533549595000836)

04 Jun 2020 17:19

Yes, absolutely yes.

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Heltor913
(id: 649130476900057089)

04 Jun 2020 17:19

@Sparrow

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Heltor913
(id: 649130476900057089)

04 Jun 2020 17:19

Damn.

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Landfill
(id: 267136787397214208)

04 Jun 2020 17:19

@Heltor913 sure it happens quite often actually

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Sparrow
(id: 263533549595000836)

04 Jun 2020 17:19

That's what happens to a lot of soldiers.

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Confused
(id: 205492937423978496)

04 Jun 2020 17:19

His checklist is composed of 20 traits. Keep in mind, his primary research subjects were convicted criminals, as they're the only people you can really get your hands on to study in this manner. 1. Superficial charm 2. Grandiose sense of self worth 3. Need for stimulation, proneness to boredom 4. Pathological lying 5. Cunning, manipulative 6. Lack of remorse 7. Shallow affect (doesn't show emotion well) 8. Callous, lack of empathy 9. Parasitic lifestyle 10. Poor behavioral controls 11. Promiscuous sexual behavior 12. Early behavior problems 13. Lack of realistic long term goals 14. Impulsivity 15. Irresponsibility 16. Failure to accept responsibility for actions 17. Many short term marital relationships 18. Juvenile delinquency 19. Revocation of conditional release 20. Criminal versatility

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Heltor913
(id: 649130476900057089)

04 Jun 2020 17:19

Is there a way to break that?

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Sparrow
(id: 263533549595000836)

04 Jun 2020 17:20

You're not going to like my answer, but more often than not. I've seen people turn to God, and that tends to change them for the better.

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Heltor913
(id: 649130476900057089)

04 Jun 2020 17:20

Damn.

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Confused
(id: 205492937423978496)

04 Jun 2020 17:20

One common trait of people who meet enough of these factors to be considered a psychopath, is that they are either unable to feel emotion, or are able to switch off their emotion to such a point where even things that evoke the strongest reactions from any normal person wouldn't even phase them.

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Confused
(id: 205492937423978496)

04 Jun 2020 17:21

They may feel slighted and want revenge, and be impulsive enough to go through with it, but they can't be in a blind rage

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Confused
(id: 205492937423978496)

04 Jun 2020 17:21

their brain is physically different

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GRANITE
(id: 701205727355600917)

04 Jun 2020 17:21

I hit everyone of those check marks

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Sparrow
(id: 263533549595000836)

04 Jun 2020 17:21

So I can recognize where I lay there, because I tend to shut off my emotions when it comes to relationships. I try, but I just don't feel anything. Like when my ex said "I love you" I couldn't possibly even think of saying it back.

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Confused
(id: 205492937423978496)

04 Jun 2020 17:22

You can condition psychopathic traits but they don't believe you can turn someone fully into a psychopath, because that would involve shrinking and growing certain parts of the brain

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Sparrow
(id: 263533549595000836)

04 Jun 2020 17:23

I don't think anyone goes full Psycopath.. but traits can be developed through trauma and exposure

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GRANITE
(id: 701205727355600917)

04 Jun 2020 17:23

Guess I was just born a psychopath 🤷🏽‍♂️

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Confused
(id: 205492937423978496)

04 Jun 2020 17:23

Some psychologists will use the term sociopath to refer to someone who has these traits based on experiences that have affected them. Most simply use the name antisocial personality disorder because it's in the DSM

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Roma Victor
(id: 188104565659402240)

04 Jun 2020 17:23

> His checklist is composed of 20 traits. Keep in mind, his primary research subjects were convicted criminals, as they're the only people you can really get your hands on to study in this manner. > 1. Superficial charm > 2. Grandiose sense of self worth > 3. Need for stimulation, proneness to boredom > 4. Pathological lying > 5. Cunning, manipulative > 6. Lack of remorse > 7. Shallow affect (doesn't show emotion well) > 8. Callous, lack of empathy > 9. Parasitic lifestyle > 10. Poor behavioral controls > 11. Promiscuous sexual behavior > 12. Early behavior problems > 13. Lack of realistic long term goals > 14. Impulsivity > 15. Irresponsibility > 16. Failure to accept responsibility for actions > 17. Many short term marital relationships > 18. Juvenile delinquency > 19. Revocation of conditional release > 20. Criminal versatility @Confused Me to myself: "Am I a psychopath?"

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Sparrow
(id: 263533549595000836)

04 Jun 2020 17:23

A lot of people show traits Granite, without being fully there

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Confused
(id: 205492937423978496)

04 Jun 2020 17:24

Everyone who studies psychopathy thinks they're one for a bit. Most realize they aren't.

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Crye Salesman
(id: 368359599889186818)

04 Jun 2020 17:24

You can’t genuinely be diagnosed with a mental disorder until your mid 20’s, your brain isn’t fully developed.

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Landfill
(id: 267136787397214208)

04 Jun 2020 17:24

@Roma Victor bro i just did the same thing

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Roma Victor
(id: 188104565659402240)

04 Jun 2020 17:24

I'm not. I dont have the lack of emotion.

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SwampFox
(id: 706603270499598457)

04 Jun 2020 17:24

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SwampFox
(id: 706603270499598457)

04 Jun 2020 17:25

me in this chat rightn ow

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Confused
(id: 205492937423978496)

04 Jun 2020 17:25

If you enjoy literally anything for more reasons than just the thrill of it, or have ever enjoyed something for more than the thrill of it at any time in your life including childhood, you're probably not one.

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Heltor913
(id: 649130476900057089)

04 Jun 2020 17:25

I think I have been so mentally fucked in such a short period of time I just have trouble really bonding with anyone. Everyone betrays you in the end so why bother is kind of where I'm at.

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Roma Victor
(id: 188104565659402240)

04 Jun 2020 17:26

You get past that

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Heltor913
(id: 649130476900057089)

04 Jun 2020 17:26

And I shut off emotions, but that's part of compartmentalization.

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Roma Victor
(id: 188104565659402240)

04 Jun 2020 17:26

At least I did

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Roma Victor
(id: 188104565659402240)

04 Jun 2020 17:26

Trust but verify

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Heltor913
(id: 649130476900057089)

04 Jun 2020 17:26

I dont think its neccesarily phsycotic to shut off those emotions till you complete your mission and then deal with it at some point later.

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Confused
(id: 205492937423978496)

04 Jun 2020 17:27

They do look for these traits in kids, but primarily so they can correct bad behavior at a young age before it becomes destructive in their adult life. Generally involves teaching them about consequences. A psychopath won't feel bad for stabbing someone who took the last slice of pizza, but they're typically intelligent enough to realize that doing something like that carries severe social consequences.

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Heltor913
(id: 649130476900057089)

04 Jun 2020 17:28

I kill you for klondike bar. 🤷‍♂️

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Heltor913
(id: 649130476900057089)

04 Jun 2020 17:28

Lmao

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Confused
(id: 205492937423978496)

04 Jun 2020 17:28

Anyway my original point is that about 50% of people who were awarded the Victoria Cross were heroes out of such intense love for their family and country that they absolutely had to do what had to be done, and the other 50% were psychopaths

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Heltor913
(id: 649130476900057089)

04 Jun 2020 17:29

Told you. The protective ones are the ones I want on my 6. 🤷‍♂️

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Heltor913
(id: 649130476900057089)

04 Jun 2020 17:29

I think I would be okay with a psychopath as long as they are stable.

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Crye Salesman
(id: 368359599889186818)

04 Jun 2020 17:30

Lul

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Heltor913
(id: 649130476900057089)

04 Jun 2020 17:30

But I would definitely watch them closely for signs of breaking. If your not already level seeing and doing traumatic things could easily push you over that ledge.

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Confused
(id: 205492937423978496)

04 Jun 2020 17:30

Some of the most stable people on the planet are psychopaths. It's difficult to be unstable and ceo of a multi billion dollar company

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Confused
(id: 205492937423978496)

04 Jun 2020 17:30

they'll be ruthless though

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Thatotherguy
(id: 648180483141795842)

04 Jun 2020 17:31

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