03 May 2020 15:20
Same shit to do with ol dude from last night?
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For the discussion of intelligence and surveillance, as well as news that is relevant to the community, like developing incidents from Facebook.
Same shit to do with ol dude from last night?
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Can somebody give me a brief rundown of what all occurred since like 1am? I think that's around the time I knocked out
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QRF was being discussed and in early development as of 5am that where this situation was. Woke up to a message on here saying that that they are dropping all plans for QRF( after extending an offer of back up and having that offer accepted) and talking him into getting a lawyer.
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@yeetasaurus all the screenshots are in PR intelligence reports to brief on the incident
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@Phill @pathenryv2 I dmed you
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@Philli dmed you as well
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We need to follow this guy and get him a lawyer.
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You guys are so quick to pass up getting due process and a lawyer before you go slotting tyrants.
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*Peace is always our first option.*
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And if you guys think the only option always is to run around gunslinging, you’ve got this shit way out of wack.
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We’re going to maintain everyone’s safety and get him a lawyer.
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@Killgore in response to your word, I’m going to ask you this: would you like people to lose their lives due to a choice you made 1,000 miles away?
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Would you rather resolve this peacefully or get people hurt and possibly killed?
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And yes, this is the second time we’ve cancelled QRF this week.
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I’m well aware.
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The first because we were unsure of the situation and we are *NOT* going to endanger anyone because of our lack of judgement.
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This time, we see a situation that could *extremely* easily evolve into something much more dangerous.
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@Killgore were you able to go?
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@ChuckD9x19 what about you?
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We can have an idea if peeps around if things go south
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But like zoomer said...there have been all kinds if events this week
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I'm 20 hours away. My window has closed.
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The oath breakers will most likely be there within 20 hours from now.
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If you show up while they're trying to use their legal option first, you'll completely fuck everything up, make the only option become violence, and make the movement look worse as a result.
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If they try to appeal it and the gov says no, then you can physically defend them and have a higher moral ground. Like, we tried to be nice but we're willing to defend ourselves.
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My thoughts exactly
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For *fuck* sake
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We can be the better people.
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Remember even the founding fathers at first only wanted representation it wasn’t until they were denied a voice and justice did they slot tyrants
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We've asked for representation as a nation for quite some time. NRA folded and supported RFLs Trump supports RFLs. Republicans are turning RINO by the day. Dems and Libs are on a never ending journey to twist and slander any chance they get, and after that shit in Canada their fire is only going to be burning hotter. The facts are in and believe you me we've been fired upon... his name was Duncan Fucking Lemp. Don't talk about the founders because at this point they would be burning powder. I'm not saying start firing at cops as soon as they show up... but they should be showing up to a force. They're showing up to violate a man's 2nd and 4th amendment rights the time for pleasantries has passed. We've been denied a voice, the media has taken it from us. We've been denied justice countless times, with countless names on that wall. When is the right time to make a stand? You say when the gov says no... so you gonna show up to Big Brothers and start refreshing that tree in an environment that they control? You stake stand when they're at your door. We've been yote upon folks, time to fucking yeet.
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Don't left the US leftists use us as an example
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That's all I have left to say on the subject
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T. Leaf who's property was made illegal
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We’re trying not to get people killed.
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The whole thing is going to be handled. We’re going to get him help one way or another.
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For the time being, everyone just be on standby.
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I think the best option may to get an SOP with others in your area. The police rarely come out half cocked and we're always going to be on the backfoot trying to gather information. The appeals route has been less than effective to this point. And I dont disagree we should use all lawful routes before we start dropping bodies. I'm just asking questions to be discussed in these early days of organization of a group, nothing else
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I had no idea this guy existed and I’ve been in this movement for like a year
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It wouldn’t have helped him out because he didn’t reach out to any groups before hand
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There will have to be an SOP for out of group situations
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What are the new developments
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Build an SOP for in group and out 8f group. Even more, maybe a defcon style rating system that can escalate and deescalate as things change.
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"Lawful routes": does that mean let the boi in question get caged first, and hope it works out later? You won't find anyone here wishing for a firefight, but good god the law doesn't mean jack shit. If the man refuses to comply with an unethical law, send support.
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It depends if he wants to be the guy to send the unethical law to the Supreme Court
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It's no longer your own personal apocalypse if you resist, like it would have been just a few weeks ago.
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Once states get a little more organized it'll be easier to judge and respond to these events, as long as leadership in each state is level headed. As for legal stuff, I may say take every non violent approach before arrest if possible. We don't want to be walked over but we don't want to be seen as bad people
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The admins here may have better judgement than I do but I'm thinking nonviolent until they become violent, and making arrests is considered violent.
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Avoiding a bad situation is ALWAYS prudent, agree Confused
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Best to let the bad guy shoot first, completely agree
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Rules of engagement, so to speak
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Anyway gotta drive for an hour or so, I'll catch up later
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I personally do not see counting on the legal system as prudent ROE at this time. Delaying and avoiding that at all costs first and foremost of course, but ultimately being unwilling to let yourself be caged in this environment.
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@ChuckD9x19 the deadline for him to turn in stuff is tomorrow
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> @ChuckD9x19 the deadline for him to turn in stuff is tomorrow @White Rabbit you mean today?
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Nvm I was thinking 24 not 48
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They'll be at his door tomorrow
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Rn we need contact with him. He is radio silent
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I say they will be ontop of the red flag warrant down to the hour.
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We’re in contact
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He’s getting a lawyer.
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O Shea or Chevy?
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Getting a lawyer is good but we saw what happened in Bundy when we stand up together. Not saying we need to take action but having a team at his house for a show of force could go a long way
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O Shea decided a lawyer was the better way to go.
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Let’s hope the Judicial system works
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As of right now in this phase of the liberty movement, I believe it to be the best shot he’s got
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Not saying that it is in fact the best course of action, but it is the one he wants to take.
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Obviously we shouldn’t even be having these infringements happening, but right now we don’t have the support to really fight this other than in the courts.
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I agree. He’s gotta do what he thinks is best
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Exactly. And what he (or anyone) thinks is best for themselves, that’s the route we should encourage them to go on, providing support along the way. Instead of the movement being divided by the recent events and reactions to said events
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Exactly. We have to support our members no matter what action they decide to take
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As long it’s not an infringement on someone else’s rights, ya know
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I’m not going to keep him from getting a lawyer.
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@pathenryv2 can you go ahead and confirm the lawyer thing? He was stressed last I talked to him so he may have been not thinking rationally.
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I’ll ask him to make sure but because of his unique situation I believe that’s what he’s going with
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Then the support will have to played out for a longer time. Gonna need to have organized protests during his court dates and get his message out
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Oh damn you’re me
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> Build an SOP for in group and out 8f group. Even more, maybe a defcon style rating system that can escalate and deescalate as things change. @Killgore Step 1: identify the problem Step 2: rate the problem on a scale 1-5. 1 being a heads up and 5 being Waco tx Step 3: scout out problem, boots on the ground and alert group on the validity of the situation Step 4: mobilize other boojahideen, and stage within eyesight of the situation. * no one * should * ever * handle a situation alone Step 5: get camera footage and either contact a police liaison to tell them that this shit ain't happening. Do not act belligerent, do not act rash.
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This is what was posted in the sos channel as an sop for all sos alerts
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Operations server being built, PM for info and suggestions. Thank you.
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So I accidentally wrote a book in response to @White Rabbit . I'm breaking it up in to pieces small enough for discord as my 7500 character exposė is too long for discord. Please bear with me.
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Damnit killgore 😂
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Tl;dr current "SOP" is ineffective. Leaves a lot of grey areas and open to interpretation. Had two incidents this weekend that gave us a learning scenario to how we have reacted, how we could do better in the future.
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So I'm going to say that isn't a SOP as much as an outline. Here's why I do not believe its detailed enough to truly create a response program. Step 1 is far too broad. Theres going to be media reporting one thing, person requesting assistance reporting another thing. If anything, the incident with Chevy this weekend proves bois can give false/bad information, especially when the feds are out locking down protestors. Step 2 doesn't address a situation. Even a Waco level situation isn't a static "5" alert level. There were some very hot flashes in the pan but for the majority of the time there were open lines of communication between the parties. Look at the whiskey warrior situation. At first it was a "2" with just squad cars rolling in on the position but it escalated to a "4" with APCs rolling in and police establishing a perimeter so wide no one is getting in eyesight without force. Step 3. Have we put boots on ground? Every time we get to this hypothetical spot it falls apart. Step 4 & 5 probably aren't even in the correct order. What do I mean? When bois are hypothetically rolling in (but close enough the perimeter cant be widened in time) that's when the police should be notified there will be a protest and their actions will be on camera. So let's apply this weekend to a thought experiment. What if Ruby Ridge happened tomorrow?
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Us Marshall's are scouting around and a firefight breaks out between the parties. Okay. Sammy is dead, we have a dead Marshall. Weaver gets on the old Facebook and sends out a plea for assistance as his son is now dead and the US Marshall's are on his doorstep to take his guns. Marshall's being more privy to social media now get the press going asap. Weaver has a failure to appear in court for a felonious activity and is now his party is attacking us law enforcement and we have one casualty (its unclear if they know if the boy is dead or not, but they are going to leave out the part where they shot a 14 year old boy). We now have two conflicting sides of the same story that both have truth to the situation. Do we roll because someone broke an unconstitutional law? Do we sit back because we have a dead LEO and tell weaver to surrender and get a lawyer? What if telling Weaver we had a qrf inbound (but didn't actually have one) emboldened him and then he lead a charge against the us Marshall's that killed his son? Now we have a level "5" that has deesclated down to a "4" or whatever numbering convention you want to use. It's no longer an active firefight, it's now a standoff. Do we send in boys? Do we hold off because we dont want anyone to be hurt? Day 2 of the standoff we now have a dead wife and an injured weaver. Do we still sit back? Do we send a response team? We know at this point LEO are dug in well enough to get snipers in position and that perimeter is so large no boys are getting in without a firefight. Tell Weaver to let a legal battle occur?
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So now protestors are pouring in. Its important to remember weaver did arms work for some neonazis at this point. Well now he have literal neonazis (man the early 90s were weird) at the lines protesting. How would it look if we had bois in Hawaiian print and gear next to neonazis? That's not good optics for media presentation huh? Do we pull out our boys removing a hypothetical fighting force (that would now be trying to penetrate an leo set barricade if the situation called for lethal force) for optics sake. Or would it be better to stand with Weaver? As his connections with these groups start to expound and come out more do we abandon it? That would make it look like any good smear campaign would be enough to make us disengage from the situation, afraid to be associated with certain groups (which wouldn't be wrong). I strongly feel these are issues that have to be hammered out through thought experiments and hypotheticals so we can truly build an operations plan that is a consistent methodology and everyone knows what to expect and how to react. To further add to my book I've authored, maybe we need to split in to Intel teams. Have one group monitoring media information. One group talking directly to the person/people/group in trouble. A liaison from each come together and discuss what's found, information gets relayed and then both sides make an independent judgement call on how serious of a threat and what to do and then the liaisons discuss between them. Then a decision is called. Decision with all applicable Intel is relayed to those in the area and a rally point established. Of course this is only one solution to it, and may not even be the best solution. Again, an honest conversation needs to be had about it.
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But what I can tell you is 6-8 hours stuck at step 1 is not going to cut it. It's not effective. For any judgement call to be effective, we need a system in place that can have a judgement call in 30 mins to an hour. I said before, I'll say again, the police rarely go in half-cocked. They know their threat, they are there to execute their mission and its planned to a T. Us scrambling to figure something out on the fly is not an efficient method of handling any situation.
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@Abe Clark I misspelled bog at one point and I couldn't figure out where I messed up Haha
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