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Citizens Liberty Organization / šŸŒŽ Global Channels / šŸ©¹medical-chat

For the discussion of medicine in general, and related topics.

magpie_(3inch)
(id: 704450073865748711)

12 Jun 2020 14:54

@AppalachianTerminus good to know, thanks

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AppalachianTerminus
(id: 466752360501215232)

12 Jun 2020 14:54

Np

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W E A R E E L M O
(id: 192582261596618753)

12 Jun 2020 14:57

so what should you do if you have someone with pneumothorax and dont have access to a hospital? that is definitely important right now since a lot of people have been using cars as weapons to injure protesters.

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W E A R E E L M O
(id: 192582261596618753)

12 Jun 2020 15:02

Im gonna do some research and post it here

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AppalachianTerminus
(id: 466752360501215232)

12 Jun 2020 15:03

Needle decompression initially, with a 3 way valve on the catheter to vent and seal later as necessary.

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AppalachianTerminus
(id: 466752360501215232)

12 Jun 2020 15:04

You could also do a thoracotamy with a drain but that's field surgery level stuff

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AppalachianTerminus
(id: 466752360501215232)

12 Jun 2020 15:04

End care is actual surgery in a real surgical suite

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AppalachianTerminus
(id: 466752360501215232)

12 Jun 2020 15:05

I was an AEMT in Maine for 6 years. Our protocols are managed by the state agency Maine EMS. The have an app that has the most recent protocols for all EMS providers in the state, and it's updated regularly. For both Apple and Android

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W E A R E E L M O
(id: 192582261596618753)

12 Jun 2020 15:06

nice

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AppalachianTerminus
(id: 466752360501215232)

12 Jun 2020 15:06

You'll need to know how to actually do the things in the protocol book, but it's a good place to start to learn what you need to learn

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AppalachianTerminus
(id: 466752360501215232)

12 Jun 2020 15:06

Also very good reference for what drugs to use for what illness etc

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W E A R E E L M O
(id: 192582261596618753)

12 Jun 2020 15:06

I'm just CNA level trained so I didnt get to learn too much about trauma

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AppalachianTerminus
(id: 466752360501215232)

12 Jun 2020 15:07

Fine a local basic emt course and take it. Usually a couple hundred bucks and a very good way to start learning

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W E A R E E L M O
(id: 192582261596618753)

12 Jun 2020 15:07

I can go to a free EMT class through my school actually

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W E A R E E L M O
(id: 192582261596618753)

12 Jun 2020 15:08

I've got a "vocational" school through my HS that has a program you can attend for free.

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Bender
(id: 188041857773731841)

12 Jun 2020 15:09

please god stop with the tampon shit

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Bender
(id: 188041857773731841)

12 Jun 2020 15:09

tampons are made to stop blood over time

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Bender
(id: 188041857773731841)

12 Jun 2020 15:09

not a gushing wound

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Bender
(id: 188041857773731841)

12 Jun 2020 15:10

thats up there with "a belt can work as a tourniquet" fuddery

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W E A R E E L M O
(id: 192582261596618753)

12 Jun 2020 15:10

it's better than nothing

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W E A R E E L M O
(id: 192582261596618753)

12 Jun 2020 15:11

A lot of protesters have tampons, not a lot of them have gauze or clotting agent.

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AppalachianTerminus
(id: 466752360501215232)

12 Jun 2020 15:11

It's actually not better than nothing

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AppalachianTerminus
(id: 466752360501215232)

12 Jun 2020 15:11

It absorbs blood, making the wound seem much less severe than it actually is

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W E A R E E L M O
(id: 192582261596618753)

12 Jun 2020 15:17

I found something for Pneumothorax https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBC7MzNbwCk

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W E A R E E L M O
(id: 192582261596618753)

12 Jun 2020 15:22

I guess my teacher is wrong about the tampon thing then

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AppalachianTerminus
(id: 466752360501215232)

12 Jun 2020 15:25

If you have access to an emt class take it asap

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AppalachianTerminus
(id: 466752360501215232)

12 Jun 2020 15:26

I've never used a spear device but NAR is pretty high speed they know what they're doing

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W E A R E E L M O
(id: 192582261596618753)

12 Jun 2020 15:26

I do, I'll talk to my high school counselor about it. (yes im still in hs...)

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W E A R E E L M O
(id: 192582261596618753)

12 Jun 2020 15:28

the one thing that I did get about field trauma from my CNA teacher was how to bandage a wound and how to stabilize their head, since we were being taught how to help old people. I may not be able to do the class though, since I have an autoimmune condition which can fuck up certain things like joint mobility.

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AppalachianTerminus
(id: 466752360501215232)

12 Jun 2020 15:31

I'd talk to the instructor of the course about it

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AppalachianTerminus
(id: 466752360501215232)

12 Jun 2020 15:31

Take the course but don't do the testing to get certified. The knowledge is still good to have

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W E A R E E L M O
(id: 192582261596618753)

12 Jun 2020 15:32

Aight.

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W E A R E E L M O
(id: 192582261596618753)

12 Jun 2020 15:33

I might be able to do an online class as well.

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W E A R E E L M O
(id: 192582261596618753)

12 Jun 2020 15:52

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVhScPcuVSTlxwpsq1H_KKw this guy has a bunch of medical knowledge for the field.

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Bender
(id: 188041857773731841)

12 Jun 2020 16:30

and, thing about quikclot, especially powder IIRC

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Bender
(id: 188041857773731841)

12 Jun 2020 16:30

it can and will kill you if you use it wrong

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Bender
(id: 188041857773731841)

12 Jun 2020 16:30

so

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Landfill
(id: 267136787397214208)

12 Jun 2020 16:32

ABSOLUTELY NEVER USE A TAMPON TO CONTROL BLEEDING EVER EVER EVER

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Bender
(id: 188041857773731841)

12 Jun 2020 16:32

is it actually detrimental? i thought it was just completely useless

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Landfill
(id: 267136787397214208)

12 Jun 2020 16:33

The reason a tampon is not an effective hemorrhage control device is it doesn't expand as it absorbs blood and doesn't absorb enough blood to be effective

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Landfill
(id: 267136787397214208)

12 Jun 2020 16:33

@Bender it is useless but it can kill someone in the form of misguided confidence that it worked

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Bender
(id: 188041857773731841)

12 Jun 2020 16:33

fair point

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Landfill
(id: 267136787397214208)

12 Jun 2020 16:35

Wound packing gauze can also be detrimental as well in a few points but most are long term. Sepsis for instance if the area around the wound is not clean, also by expanding it can cut circulating to major blood vessels which can diminish or cease perfusion to a distal extremity.

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Landfill
(id: 267136787397214208)

12 Jun 2020 16:36

At the end of the day in trauma bleeding first and fore most then worry about any other injuries. Also a point to make that was drilled in my head by my EMT instructor. You don't get points for a perfectly packaged dead person. It doesn't have to look pretty but it DOES have to work

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Bender
(id: 188041857773731841)

12 Jun 2020 16:36

https://tenor.com/view/good-burger-some-of-these-gif-12933391

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Landfill
(id: 267136787397214208)

12 Jun 2020 16:37

and be right

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Landfill
(id: 267136787397214208)

12 Jun 2020 16:40

Never use any equipment you've never been trained on. If you aren't properly trained to render aide you can very well cause more harm then good. That's a video of a dude who gets domed by a rubber bullet and collapsed looked like he had a skull fracture but there was alot the bystanders did that could have absolutely been detrimental to his outcome in the trauma center

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Bender
(id: 188041857773731841)

12 Jun 2020 16:41

your thoughts on keeping equipment in your ifak that you can't use? i've always been told that an IFAK is for a medic to use on you, so i keep a needle decomp in there even though i have no idea how to use it. i will *never* touch it but i figure having it in there can't be that bad right

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Bender
(id: 188041857773731841)

12 Jun 2020 16:41

i said the same thing on the boojiebastards medic page a week ago and the admin got a gigantic stick up his ass and made a post blasting me to the whole page

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Landfill
(id: 267136787397214208)

12 Jun 2020 16:43

@Bender i mean that's not a wrong assertion but any TC3 class will tell you that your IFAK is for you to use. Think of it like this, Your wounded, and pinned, medic can't get to you safely, your bleeding out on your X. Are you going to wait for him to maybe have an opening, or try to stabilize your stuff and get off the X

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Landfill
(id: 267136787397214208)

12 Jun 2020 16:44

So everyone is different, I'm a civilian EMT-B with some knowledge of ALS interventions, never been a combat medic though. So for me i always believe in staying in your scope of practice. If your not trained on it don't use it, but to keep something that someone else is trained on in your kit is not wrong either

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Bender
(id: 188041857773731841)

12 Jun 2020 16:44

fair point

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W E A R E E L M O
(id: 192582261596618753)

12 Jun 2020 16:44

what do you guys think of Xstat? the syringe filled with expanding sponges for gunshots.

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Bender
(id: 188041857773731841)

12 Jun 2020 16:45

yeah i mean i figured it's the size of a pen, there's nothing else i can put in that space that's critical enough to warrant keeping the decomp out and someone might be able to save my life with it some day, so what's the harm

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Landfill
(id: 267136787397214208)

12 Jun 2020 16:45

@W E A R E E L M O i haven't seen enough of it to be for or against it but i have heard it is effective.

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Bender
(id: 188041857773731841)

12 Jun 2020 16:47

living 3 and a half hours from the closest big town sucks, it's a fucking ordeal to go get training

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Landfill
(id: 267136787397214208)

12 Jun 2020 16:47

Big thing with IFAKS/PFAKS keep it accessible to both arms. Don't rely on someone else getting to you that could be the difference between life and death for you. Your femoral artery can bleed you dry in 3 minutes. Shock sets in at any the 1 min-1.5 min mark at that, once Shock sets in your chance of survival diminish substantially

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Bender
(id: 188041857773731841)

12 Jun 2020 16:47

PFAK?

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W E A R E E L M O
(id: 192582261596618753)

12 Jun 2020 16:48

personal first aid kit

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Bender
(id: 188041857773731841)

12 Jun 2020 16:48

whats the difference between that and an ifak

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Landfill
(id: 267136787397214208)

12 Jun 2020 16:48

@Bender many fd's offer cpr, stop the bleed courses, if there's a vollunteer ambulance squad they can offer you training and experience on their dime. You'll learn an awesome amount on a bus

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W E A R E E L M O
(id: 192582261596618753)

12 Jun 2020 16:48

I dont think there is one.

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Landfill
(id: 267136787397214208)

12 Jun 2020 16:48

@Bender from what i understand is just wording

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Bender
(id: 188041857773731841)

12 Jun 2020 16:49

ah

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Bender
(id: 188041857773731841)

12 Jun 2020 16:49

there's a fire department here but i dont think they offer courses

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Bender
(id: 188041857773731841)

12 Jun 2020 16:49

i think it's made up entirely of volunteers, im not sure

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Bender
(id: 188041857773731841)

12 Jun 2020 16:49

NPS makes shit weird man

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Landfill
(id: 267136787397214208)

12 Jun 2020 16:50

I started as a volly now i work for the largest hospital system in NY as an EMT as well as work in the FDNY system through my agency as a Volluntary Participant Service

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Landfill
(id: 267136787397214208)

12 Jun 2020 16:50

I put a thing up I'll repost it in a bit on what to keep in an ifak vs what to keep in a working/trauma bag.

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Landfill
(id: 267136787397214208)

12 Jun 2020 16:54

I would by one tq to use as a trainer only. Practice applying it to your self. Various limbs. Get it right then run a drill and apply it fast, time your self. Unstand how it's applied, and how it will feel. It's gonna hurt, it'll leave a bruise of done right. Keep tightening until you cannot palpate/feel a distal pulse anymore

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Bender
(id: 188041857773731841)

12 Jun 2020 16:56

cant tourniquets do damage

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Bender
(id: 188041857773731841)

12 Jun 2020 16:57

also, can a CAT be refolded and put away for a second use?

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Bender
(id: 188041857773731841)

12 Jun 2020 16:57

i'd hate to drop $25 for every drill i do

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Landfill
(id: 267136787397214208)

12 Jun 2020 16:58

@Bender knock off one's yes. NAR CATs have been documented to have little to know deficit after use for a long as 12 hours. For training purposes yes. But i wouldn't rely on one after it's been used for real world applications

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AppalachianTerminus
(id: 466752360501215232)

12 Jun 2020 17:01

But two, use one only for training, the other goes in your bag. They stay functional for pretty much years but they're not made to be used to actually save a life more than once

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AppalachianTerminus
(id: 466752360501215232)

12 Jun 2020 17:01

They can stretch and lose efficiency. And a lot of uses will eventually weaken the strap stitching

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AppalachianTerminus
(id: 466752360501215232)

12 Jun 2020 17:02

So yes use the trainer one 1000 times until you break the thing it don't matter

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AppalachianTerminus
(id: 466752360501215232)

12 Jun 2020 17:03

Also TQs do damage when they're too narrow. The CAT and SOFT W are both 1.5 inch wide and have been proven to not cause permanent damage for up to like 10 hours of placement

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Landfill
(id: 267136787397214208)

12 Jun 2020 17:03

@AppalachianTerminus that's the big one i forgot to mention thanks for that

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AppalachianTerminus
(id: 466752360501215232)

12 Jun 2020 17:04

Don't fucking every buy or use a RATS TQ. The only thing a rats is good for is to say "hey look how stupid this is"

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Landfill
(id: 267136787397214208)

12 Jun 2020 17:04

@AppalachianTerminus I've never even heard of that before lmao

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AppalachianTerminus
(id: 466752360501215232)

12 Jun 2020 17:04

If I found out youre using one un-ironically, when you go to sleep, I'm gonna be under your bed

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AppalachianTerminus
(id: 466752360501215232)

12 Jun 2020 17:05

Google them it's fucking tragic

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Landfill
(id: 267136787397214208)

12 Jun 2020 17:05

Brooooo lmfaooooo

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Landfill
(id: 267136787397214208)

12 Jun 2020 17:05

The fack even is that

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AppalachianTerminus
(id: 466752360501215232)

12 Jun 2020 17:05

It's some elastic strap with like a figure 9 ring for a climbing harness and some bullshit

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AppalachianTerminus
(id: 466752360501215232)

12 Jun 2020 17:06

Just fucking pure aids

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Landfill
(id: 267136787397214208)

12 Jun 2020 17:07

Dude i wouldn't trust that for shit

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W E A R E E L M O
(id: 192582261596618753)

12 Jun 2020 17:07

oh yeah, something that's important to remember as well is the interactions between common drugs and certain foods.

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Landfill
(id: 267136787397214208)

12 Jun 2020 17:07

@W E A R E E L M O to a degree yes

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Landfill
(id: 267136787397214208)

12 Jun 2020 17:08

But that's getting into advanced medicine, which you really shouldn't be doing while in direct combat

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AppalachianTerminus
(id: 466752360501215232)

12 Jun 2020 17:08

A great app that I used and still use all the time for drugs is Epocrates

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W E A R E E L M O
(id: 192582261596618753)

12 Jun 2020 17:08

like grapefruit and statins, tylenol and alcohol, etc.

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AppalachianTerminus
(id: 466752360501215232)

12 Jun 2020 17:08

It's free for most of it, the payed app is more doctor shit but it's a great app fucking loaded with info

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Landfill
(id: 267136787397214208)

12 Jun 2020 17:09

@AppalachianTerminus mobilepdr is good to, free AND tells compatibility issues between drugs

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AppalachianTerminus
(id: 466752360501215232)

12 Jun 2020 17:09

Epocrates does as well

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Landfill
(id: 267136787397214208)

12 Jun 2020 17:09

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Landfill
(id: 267136787397214208)

12 Jun 2020 17:10

@AppalachianTerminus didn't know that i gave both, use them after work with drugs people tell me they're on

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W E A R E E L M O
(id: 192582261596618753)

12 Jun 2020 17:10

Nice

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AppalachianTerminus
(id: 466752360501215232)

12 Jun 2020 17:10

I used it all the time

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