Citizens Liberty Organization / 🌎 Global Channels / 🔫the-armory [part 6]

I don’t like inserting plates into soft armor carriers

Weight distribution is ass and it’s too bulky

Better than getting fragged by a ricochet

You can definitely run soft armor as a plate backer since you don't need trauma plates with hard armor. It makes it more comfortable and added protection is a bonus

I'd beg to differ on truma pads with hard armor

Never got shot in a plate but did get kicked by a horse with one on, it isn't pleasnt

Yeah. At one point I would run soft armor under a jacket or loose over shirt, and then my hard carrier with mags, etc in the floorboard of the truck, plus that way I could still get out and interact without being high vis

I don’t think the added protection of the soft armor is worth it for me, personally.

A horse kick is going to impart waaaaay more energy than a bullet, and a trauma pad wouldn't do much at all to disperse it. Trauma pads are for taking a concentrated point of energy and dispersing it, exactly like if you try to poke corn starch slime really quickly

Should also be said some plates are stand alone, and some are supposed to have backers

A horse kick is a bit less energy than a 308 delivers

308 hunting loads deliver somewhere in the range of 2500-3000 foot pounds of energy and the average horse kick is close to 2000

That's 2000 psi, not foot pounds

Excuse me, back to the calculator I go

Idk why they decided to measure a horse kick in psi in that article though

Okay, yeah that comes out to an excess of 28,000 ft/lbs

There's more to it than punching it into a calculator. There's other physical factors that have to be taken into account

Since they measure two different things

There is a lot to it but a plate doesn't just magic the kinetic energy away

It disperses it across the total area of the plate

And from that wide area into you

Otherwise you'd have back face deformation

There are few times when taking a shot to the plate you are gonna still be standing

While it seems no one has really measured the joules of a horse kick that I can find, take newton's laws into account. The energy of a bullet being stopped by a hard plate can't be more than the energy of the recoil of the rifle firing it

Considering that energy of recoil is being dispersed into a small area on your shoulder, taking something like a 308 point blank would at the very most stagger you slightly.

Go try that sometime and come back and tell us about it

Being hit in a plate is going to lay you out, knock the wind out of you, and make your chest sore for a few days

It isn't a good time

I'm trying to see if I can find someone talking about their experience to confirm or deny my estimations. Bullets are tiny compared to a horse's leg, which should allow the energy to disperse itself much more quickly, having little pushing power.

Again though, if that were true, shooting a rifle would leave you bruised for weeks

Newton's 3rd law

Take the unit of measurment Foot pounds Pounds of pressure per square foot of area 1 ft/lbs is 1 pound over a whole square foot of area 2000 ft/lbs is 2k pounds over a square foot Assuming you have a plate 12 inches by 24 inches 2 square feet That means 2000 ft/lbs of energy in is going to feel like 1000 assuming perfect dispersal of energy

The bit you are over looking is that the bullet is very light comapred to the gun shooting it meaning it would take more energy to propel the gun a 2500 feet per second than the bullet

The gun typically weighs 6-8 pounds, which conveniently is the same weight as your typical level 4 plate

We can see zero backface deformation using clay on first shot as long as the plate is in tact and rated for the caliber used, meaning the entire plate will be pushed back.

Now I could do math but it's easier to say, what happens when the energy of a 308 butt pad is dispersed across an entire plate? A small shove

Either find someone who has been shot in a plate or (sarcasm air quotes) "try taking a plate hit yourself"

We can use the laws of physics to stand in for being shot because we know they're infallible

Just wear truama pads, that's all I'm trying to say

2nd and third shots you do start to see backface deformation if they're in the same general area within an inch or two, in which case trauma pads are useful. The trauma pad instantly hardens when hit, dispersing energy across a wider area (doing exactly what a ceramic plate does to energy on first hit, minus the bullet stopping capabilities)

Then wear a truama pad for multi hit, just have a truama pad under armor

I dont know shit about physics except the obvious. You’re gonna move back a bit if a horse kicks you regardless. The velocity continues a bit after impact which in turn moves the plate into you and then moves you back along that trajectory as well. A bullet is so small compared to the plate that the absorption disperses it to minute amounts of impact to the point it’s barely a flinch.

And I don’t know shit about physics

But I can wave my hands around and illustrate as good as the next redneck

6 more smoke breaks and I get to go home for a 2 day breather. Fuck this 60 hour a week shit man

What do yall recommend for lvl4 ceramic plates?

Well damn. I just asked one of my friends who's been overseas. 7.62x39 to a plate feels like getting hit with a strong punch, or a baseball apparently

I stand corrected

Also redacted boi -

!armor

```fix Hey there, it looks like you're asking about armor. Here's some quick tips. Soft armor stops most handgun rounds and is good for concealing. If you're shot, you'll have a massive bruise for a month or longer. Steel armor is heavy, will send spall into your neck, and doesn't protect against fast moving rounds like m193, m855a1, and 22-250. You can get ceramic for about the same cost as steel at its lower end, so there's no point in even buying steel. Ceramic armor comes in a few sizes. SAPI and swimmer/shooter cut are what you're looking for. The latter makes it easier to move your arms. The more protection, the heavier. The lighter it is for its rating class, the more expensive. Lightweight LVL iv plates cost a ton. Multi curve is more comfortable than single curve, and flat should be avoided outright. The more curves, the more $ though. If you don't like reading or dealing with lots of choices: Hesco if you have money Hoplite if you're poor but want something that will still protect you Here's a thread listing off armor of various types in ranking of how good they are, based on protection provided compared to weight, and quality of manufacturing. ``` https://www.reddit.com/r/QualityTacticalGear/comments/cmkton/armor_purchasing_guide/

I'll be putting together basic (thick) cardboard armor plates to pass out in Denver, should protect vital organs from rubbers and pellets

@captain slow What AR is that?

battle creek armory

local edina mn

Oh okay

I need to take current pics of my rifle

Anybody know the best sight for an AK specifically a Warsaw 10

@captain slow is that FN FAL 308

cetme c308

Good shit

@captain slow Doesn't look like a bad AR setup

pre h&k g3 rifle from spain

Is it just me or does that entire AR have a curve from tip to butt

> I'll be putting together basic (thick) cardboard armor plates to pass out in Denver, should protect vital organs from rubbers and pellets @Brujo If you can get access to high density foam 👌🏽👌🏽👌🏽

I have a lvl4 ceramic plate carrier

I friggen love it.

Only 28 pds. Supposedly can stop up to 8 m8a11a1 (or w.e im tired) and like 15 7.62x39

Lbs*

.308 ftw

A lvl 4 ceramic plate carrier? That weighs 28lbs... Dude wat

All of that just isn’t registering

How so? IV plates are typically 8lbs each, good carriers actually weigh a bit too

Add ammo... my carrier weighs about 28-30 with mags

I mean that was my assumption too, but the way it was written had me at a loss. I’m tired, 6p-6a, just got done taking my dog to the vet and it’s 822 and I have a 30 min drive home.

Yeah that checks out. Non minimalist pc's can weigh around 8 pounds before you add anything. Throw in 14-16 pounds of plates, a few pounds of ammo, and you'll get to 28 easy. Then you can add a couple pounds of water, then your medical and radio, assault pack, and whatever else. Suddenly you're carrying 40 pounds of gear before you even touch your rifle.

I put on all my gear a while back and weighed myself before and after. Clothing, guns, ammo, water bladder helmet, everything I carry while training.... 68lbs.

Yeah, they are much lighter and can be easily defeated by common rifle rounds though

Depending on the department though they can use their own plates. I know many guys around here that run hesco IV

Honestly I'm a fan of lighter weight special threat plates as long as they're from a reputable brand. Hesco has stuff out there centered around stopping 5.56 and 7.62x39 while remaining as light as possible.

Not technically... aim for the head and sides

Most don't use side plates, and honestly I think they are overrated.

Level 4 is supposed to stop 30-06 black tip. I think I've seen a couple be penetrated by 7.62 nato armor piercing but just getting ahold of one round of that is tricky and expensive

As confused said, TBH most would be fine with a special threat plate. 855A1 is super rare

If you're buying for le / military, you can get the rounds for $7 a pop

To think they're designed for machinegun usage though lol

Money shredder goes brrrrrr

7.62ap?

Yeah, they are LMG rounds

Yeah. Big ol tungsten carbide penetrator rounds

Yeah... I have some A1 rounds... enough to fill 2 mags. But I don't even keep them loaded

Apparently they come linked in 200 round chains and you can only buy them by the box of 1000

I mostly keep regular FMJ and green tip in the csrrier

*carrier

Or individually from people at gun shows or armslist who stole them from their base

They aren't really illegal to buy... just hard to find someone to sell them to you

It's potentially illegal. You can't legally buy or manufacture ap rounds that can be used in a pistol, and since the ar10 can be configured as a pistol, companies won't sell to you because they don't want to deal with the atf